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November 22, 2008 • (952) 942-7885
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Jenifer Loon's husband is U.S. Chamber's Vice President of Regional Affairs
Submitted by edenpprairiefac... on October 7, 2008 - 10:36pm.
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Jenifer Loon is "the former Chief of Staff for the Committee on Small Business in the U.S. House of Representatives."
http://www.sd42blog.com/42B.html
“Erik Paulsen is a champion for the people of Minnesota and an invaluable leader on important business issues,” said Doug Loon, the U.S. Chamber’s vice president of regional affairs."
http://www.looktruenorth.com/elections/us-congressional-races/107-congre...
Doug Loon's Lobbying Record At Firm: CHAMBER OF COMMERCE OF THE U.S.A. for 2008
Date Issue(s) Client Income Expenses
2008-03-31 Accounting, Aerospace, Agriculture, Aviation / Aircraft / Airlines, Bankruptcy, Banking, Budget / Appropriates, Chemicals / Chemical Industry, Civil Rights / Civil Liberties, Communications / Broadcasting / Radio / TV, Computer Industry, Copyright / ... CHAMBER OF COMMERCE OF THE U.S.A. Income 0 Expenses 9,820,000
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http://www.implu.com/lobbyist/51074
Jenifer Loon will follow in the footsteps of Mr. Paulsen who has a 100% rating from the MN Chamber. She is too closely connected with the U.S. Chamber to vote on the side of wage earners and families.
The question is why didn't the local GOP web site list Doug as the U.S. Chamber’s vice president of regional affairs??
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Because, Vicki, Doug isn't...
Back to page topBecause, Vicki, Doug isn't running -- duh.
If you want to find out more about Jenifer Loon (who is running) and how you can get to meet her and ask questions, check: http://www.jeniferloon.com
Peter, I see a lot of US...
Back to page topPeter, I see a lot of US Chamber ads on TV, and thy all seem to be really negative.
Does Doug Loon have any influence about these ads? As the local representative for the Chamber, does he condemn them?
Again, Tommy: not running,...
Back to page topAgain, Tommy: not running, not relevant.
Peter, the US Chamber is...
Back to page topPeter, the US Chamber is running negative attack ads; Doug Loon speaks for the US Chamber.
Here's what recently appeared on National Public Radio:
So, what we have here, is a career politician, Erik Paulsen, whining about negative campaigning, when he was endorsed by a guy, Doug Loon, who's organization is a gorilla in the practice of negative campaigning.
Sorry, Peter - Doug Loon publicly endorsed Erik Paulsen on behalf of his group; Doug Loon is fair game with respects to negative campaigning.
So, the question is: does Doug Loon denounce the negative attack ads of his employer, the US Chamber Of Commerce?
The complaint about Madia's...
Back to page topThe complaint about Madia's ads was that they were outright lies. His ads got an "F" from the Eyewitness News Truth Test -- they called his ads "the worst we've ever seen".
Jim Ramstad votes with the Democrats about as much as he does with the Republicans (remember he voted 100% with Nancy Pelosi and against the Republicans in early 2007). Surely you would consider him to be fair-minded, wouldn't you? Yet the Rammer describes Madia's ads as "gutter politics" and "outrageous fabrications.".
So -- the issue is not negative ads. The issue is lies, the worst lies anyone has ever seen, gutter politics, and outrageous fabrications. Are you aware of anything the Chamber is saying about Madia that is a lie or the worst lie you've ever seen or gutter politics or outrageous fabrications?
My other objection to Vicki's piece is that she mentioned Jenifer's name in the title -- her not-so-veiled attempt to smear Jenifer's campaign with her non-story. In the local 42B race, I'm only aware of one negative mud-slinging mailing that has gone out and it came from the Pitzrick campaign.
So, if you don't like negative campaigning, you have one more reason to vote for Jenifer Loon.
Last but not least, the Chamber is supposedly a group that advocates for business interests. Don't you think that -- in the midst of our current economic mess -- this might be the WRONG TIME for Democrats to start bashing business?
Except, Peter - they are NOT...
Back to page topExcept, Peter - they are NOT "Madia's ads."
They were sent by a group that Madia doesn't control; just as Paulsen has no control over the content of ads sent by Doug Loon's employer, the US Chamber of Commerce.
But, you knew that, didn't you?
Tell me, Peter - do you denounce the negative ads sent by Doug Loon's employer, the US Chamber of Commerce?
Tommy, the links you...
Back to page topTommy, the links you provided do not specifically address the Paulsen-Madia race. What I want to know is:
What specifically is in the Chamber ad that rises to the level of "outright lies", "the worst we've ever seen", "gutter politics" and "outrageous fabrications".
Again, negative campaigning is not the issue. I'll repeat: negative campaigning is not the issue.
If I take out an ad that says that you support tax policies that will hurt the economy and destroy jobs, is it negative campaigning? Of course. You might not like it, you might not agree with it, but it is certainly a fair attack based on the fact that you support bigger government and higher taxes.
So it's negative. But it certainly does not rise to the level of "outright lies", "the worst we've ever seen", "gutter politics" and "outrageous fabrications".
Please answer this question:
What specifically is it about the Chamber ad against Madia that rises to the level "outright lies", "the worst we've ever seen", "gutter politics" and "outrageous fabrications"?
Can you name one thing?
In other words, negative...
Back to page topIn other words, negative campaigning is ok, when YOUR side does it.
And as usual, you are demonstrating the hypocrisy the GreedOverPrinciples party has become known for.
Let's look at three ad analysis on Pat Kessler's WCCO Reality Check website:
Yet you guys whine when the slime you throw, is thrown back at you.
The only reason Paulsen's whining, is he doesn't have the money to throw more slime. If he did, he would. And he's running such a lousy campaign, the National Republicans won't spend money to throw slime for him. Which only means Paulsen will whine louder.
"It's not fair that they're throwing slime (and no one is throwing slime for me)!" is what Paulsen's tantrum is really all about. It's really rather pathetic.
Tommy, you have alleged that...
Back to page topTommy, you have alleged that the Chamber is spreading lies about Madia. I asked repeatedly for one example of their lies and you still haven't named one.
Your first example is an ad by McCain-Palen. It has nothing to do with the topic.
Your second example is an ad by some national party committee. It has nothing to do with the topic.
Your third example is an ad by some business coalition. It has nothing to do with the topic.
Ok -- back to the topic. Can you name me one thing that the Chamber is saying about Madia that rises to the level of character assassination and lies?
DOUG RELEVANT Peter B. has a...
Back to page topDOUG RELEVANT
Peter B. has a unique ability to create havoc out of simple reasoning, the problem with him is his logic only works when it serves the point he's trying to make. "Doug doesn't count."
Well, than certainly Ayers, who isn't running either, should not count, yet Republicans want to tie him to Obama. Let's remember they're not exactly living under the same roof like Doug and Jenifer are; they served on the same charity and may have met socially. Ayres is a non-issue, DOUG IS NOT.
The fact that Jenifer and the GOP have left out her husband's Chamber ties is no mistake; it's a purposeful ommission, because such ties implicate her heavy connections to the GOP machine, it's positions and certainly she would be more likely to follow lock step with Paulsen's voting record. A disaster for us if she were to win.
Peter B. is trying to intimidate the messenger by referring to EPFactchecker with someone's name, so too Gino and Bigfoot. They, Gino, Bigfoot, say they don't know each other, but my bet is they all have close ties to the GOP, know each other and are being prodded, by who?
Let's remember who ever they think they know EPfactchecker is, IS NOT THE ISSUE. Whoever this person is, isn't running for office, does not have to be held accountable to an ethical code like our elected representative do. The online code the EPfactchecker has to uphold is to tell the truth, that's the one weapon, Peter, Bigfoot and Gino and others can't take away.
And that's exactly what they don't want.
Nice comparison, Vicki -- a...
Back to page topNice comparison, Vicki -- a known terrorist vs. a candidate's spouse.
I have a riddle for you:
Q: What do Barack Obama and Osama Bin Laden have in common?
A: They both know someone who has bombed the pentagon.
Say, Peter? What do John...
Back to page topSay, Peter?
What do John McCain and Norm Coleman have in common?
Here's a hint: it has to do with violating Senate Ethics....
Tommy - that sounds like...
Back to page topTommy - that sounds like NEGATIVE CAMPAIGNING. You're against that, remember?
McCain was found by the...
Back to page topMcCain was found by the Senate Ethics Committee to have exercised Poor Judgement; Norman Marcus is probably going to lose his election, so he won't have to face the Ethics Committee for SuitCase, CheapRent, and UtilityGate.
Pointing out a candidate's record is not negative campaigning; negative campaigning is what George W. Bush did to John McCain in the 2000 Republican Primary, and especially what Bush did to McCain in South Carolina. Republicans are the experts at negative campaigning; link here for a hilarious - but factual - look at Karl Rove smearing the credentials of Virginia Governor Tim Kaine, but later polishing up the credentials of Sarah Palin. It's hypocrisy the GOP is well known for.
The real reason Paulsen is whining is because the National Republican Congressional Committee has abandoned his campaign, and he's trying to distract and pivot from this crucial information. And it's hypocritical to complain about mailers and ads Madia has no control over, when groups on the GOP side do the EXACT SAME THING.
When a candidate's national party abandons the candidate, it's because the candidate is a loser.
Career politician Erik Paulsen will be officially retired on November 5th, 2008.
Back to John McCain - he is officially recognized as exercising poor judgement in his role in the Keating Five and the S&L Scandal; he still is exercising poor judgement.
McCain, too, will lose on November 4th.
I's a fact: John McCain was...
Back to page topI's a fact: John McCain was investigated by the Senate Ethics Committee for his involvement with Charles Keating and the collapse of the Lincoln Savings & Loan.
Here's what that fraud was about, in the Banking Regulator that was involved own words:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDofbll86dY
It's forever on hitory's record; John McCain - at the very least - exercised Poor Judgement.
Norm Coleman should know the Senate's Ethics Rules; either he's negligent for being ignorant or he's a cheat - you tell me.
However you answer, you should know there is an Ethics Complaint filed against Coleman, for what clearly appears to be an unethical arrangement regarding Coleman's apartment, and utilities.
Now, Coleman is dogged by reports that a supporter bought clothing for Coleman at Neiman Marcus, and Coleman's spokesman, Cullen Sheehan, won't give a straight up, yes or no answer to if it's true, or not. You can watch Cullen Sheehan doing The Smokescreen Shuffle, here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VySnpLoaUrI
Desperation... Peter hasn't...
Back to page topDesperation...
Peter hasn't yet grasped the point: Ayers is not living in Obama's house; he's not lending his public support to other DFL candidates; he's a person of thousands who has been in the same room, done the same charity work....lived in the same neighborhood, not bed.
Doug holds a highly visible position RIGHT NOW with a lot of influence in Republican circles. To think Jenifer isn't getting a boost; she's probably running with the help of that influence...
In other words there is NO COMPARISON: DOUG is the one with influence.
I doubt there is a rational person, who is not a hatemonger, rumour maker,perpetuator of LIES, who thinks Ayers has any influence over Barak.
You've been spinning so long, you've lost your balance.
Now Doug, on the other hand, is a person, with considerable ability to hold sway, not only with Jenifer, but with the Minnesota Legislature.
He lobbies for the Chamber. Ayres does not.
The premise of your original...
Back to page topThe premise of your original piece, Vicki, is that the Chamber did something wrong in the Paulsen-Madia race. But when I ask you what they said that was so contemptible, neither you nor Tommy can mention any specifics.
Again, the issue is NOT negative campaigning. The issue with the Madia ads is "outright lies", "the worst we've ever seen", "gutter politics" and "outrageous fabrications"?
That is what Jim Ramstad and KSTP-TV and everyone else was complaining about yesterday. That is what's poisoning this race.
Since you brought up Ayers, I can ask the same question a second way if you like: Ayers is a known terrorist with close ties to Obama. We KNOW what he did wrong. What specifially did the Chamber do that rises to the same level as bombing buildings and murdering innocent people?
So Vicki, I'll give you one more chance. Can you name ANYTHING specific that the Chamber said that was evil and wrong in the Paulsen-Madia race? Anything at all?
The issue is your pathetic...
Back to page topThe issue is your pathetic claim that when negativity is tossed at Paulsen it's wrong, but when your side goes negative, it's ok - even negative ads by Doug Loon's employer, the US Chamber of Commerce.
And it was rather sad, watching Jim Ramstad take such a partisan position; a position that he needs to speak out when distortions are aimed at Paulsen, but he needs to remain silent when distortions are leveled at Franken.
Reasonable people expect better of Ramstad.
Tommy, I've never opposed...
Back to page topTommy, I've never opposed negative ads. I think you MUST compare your record against that of your opponent. All I ask is that the ads be fair and truthful.
Is it negative to say your opponent is a tax and spend liberal? Sure. Of course it is. But if it;s the truth, if it's defensible, it's totally proper.
So -- let me be clear: I think negative ads are great. As long as you tell the truth.
The problem with the Madia ads is they are not truthful. In fact they are some of the worst lies ever witnessed. That's the difference.
You talk about reasonable people. Reasonable people answer a simple question when asked.
You asked me to condemn the Chamber ads. Ok -- I will do it. Just tell me what they said about Madia that rises to the level of character assassination and lies. Can you name one thing?
Peter, why do you infer -...
Back to page topPeter, why do you infer - once again - that they're "Madia's ads", when you know they are NOT Madia's ads?
It's this type of intellectual dishonesty that the GOP is well known for.
And you can't answer the...
Back to page topAnd you can't answer the question. You're mad about the Chamber ads, but you can't name one distortion in the ads.
Peter, I'm not mad about the...
Back to page topPeter, I'm not mad about the Chamber ads; it's your hypocrisy that has me laughing. You're whining that someone is distorting Paulsen's record, but ignoring that your side distorts, too. For instance, there is this ad, by the Chamber, distorting Al Franken's record:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErFYLNs6uSk
If Ramstad condemns distortions aimed at Paulsen, he should be consistent and also condemn distortions aimed at everyone else. He didn't; he's being hypocritical.
If you condemn the distortions aimed at Paulsen, you should be consistent and also condemn distortions aimed at everyone else. You won't; you're being hypocritical.
And it's this consistent hypocrisy from your party that has caused GOP to now stand for GreedOverPrinciples.